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Discussion in 'TV Board' started by Jack Parkman, Aug 10, 2015.
Dude it's a TV show, chill.
reviews and such
and to me, makes it seem like delolores takes it back to farm after THIS timeline, and somehow drops it til its found in the present
Think this is a really fair and even-handed look at the episode and where we stand right now:
Team Fuck Your Multiple Timelines
Dolores is just having flashbacks; her seeing MIB in the present after visiting the confessional room seems to confirm single timeline to me. Showrunners just fucking with everyone with her different outfits and allusions to different timelines
Isn't a visual display of flashbacks where we follow the story throughout multiple episodes a confirmation of multiple storylines?
I think you mean "timelines."
And no, that's not a semantic difference. Most people have used multiple "timelines" to mean huge, broad swaths of the show's scenes are clandestinely a different time period than the "present." That's how you end up with a theory like "MIB=William," i.e. the showrunners have "tricked" the viewer into thinking everything besides obvious flashbacks were in a simultaneous timeline.
Of course there have been "obvious" flashbacks...you see it with the park's history and Dolores, Ford, Arnold, Bernard, etc. I'm just doubting this idea that entire portions of the show have actually been "secret" second or third timelines. If the "multiple timelines" people are now just saying that the obvious flashbacks are the "multiple timelines," that's just moving the goalposts after finding out you were wrong.
Finale is 90 minutes
Directed by Nolan himself
Joy says pretty much all the answers are there except for how the show transitions to season 2
Watching again, she does seem to be somewhat more, enlightened.
One thing I read today that makes sense, and supports the theory that MIB did rape Dolores in the barn----he discovery Maeve became human when she underwent a traumatic experience. He said something to the effect of "for at least a little while, she was alive."
Maybe he has to cause Dolores some unspeakable trauma to "wake" her up? Pretty disturbed, but not a crazy theory.
Random rewatch thought. At least 2 people have now told MIB the maze isn't meant for him.
Random rewatch thought 2.
When Stubbs gets gets in the elevator to find Elsie, there's a (high speed) flash through the tube on the right. Maybe that's how the employees are able to get around quickly in the giant park.
I was thinking earlier today that he has to traumatize her in order to wake her up. When Bernard said something along the lines of "a little trauma can be enlightening" or whatever I thought that was important. Also, the MiB told Dolores that he "wants her to fight" when he is dragging her.
When Dolores gets all time fucked back at the church, Angela and Armistice are in there due to confused thoughts. The cold storage Abernathy dad is shown in the underground lab.
this isn't an "i told you so post," but just bringing it back up for comparison to what the hosts who were "communicating" with Arnold were doing in the chapel
Looked exactly like schizophrenia. Lines up perfectly with the bicameral mind.
All I know is that I know nothing, and I'm going to need to rematch this season 5 times to finally "get it."
I don't know if you're just expanding on it but this was all discussed by Ford and Bernard in episode 3 in Ford's office.
Not to say he's on to something, but didn't Logan refer to parts of the park as feeling market tested? The MiB told Hector he never joined his story-line because he seemed too market tested too. Maybe a subtle jab at a host modeled after his friend?
What else did people think he did to her in the barn?
Wait, there are people who don't believe there are multiple timelines? Please explain the photo of William's fiance' in a non-multiple timeline plot, por favor.
Some think he scalped her to get another look at the maze. Also, assuming William=MIB, and their history, maybe get her to remember/something along those lines in a different way.
Regardless, based on the article posted by Nelson above, I bet we get an answer in the finale.
I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't rape her, but that depends on if the MiB is William or Logan or neither.
I like the cut of your jib. what's the thought process behind the bold? I honestly got the feeling that William =/= MiB when I saw that scene but then came in here and saw the consensus opinion and decided not to take on the mob again
I feel like if you believe MiB = William then you can't think he raped her in the barn
he already made the transition to psychopath but is still wanting to true love with her
ain't no god damn way dolores saying "william?" before mib walks through the door is proof they are the same. shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.
they may very well be but that is no proof. in fact, it's less proof than 95% of the similarities between the characters.
But yeah, the thought process is that Dllres left Will-I-Am and ran to the chapel, visited the confession room, popped back up and saw MIB. Just given the way that scene proceeds, i.e. how she's confused and drawn to the room, sees the the dilapidated basement, remembers everything, pops back up and returns to the same timeline and there's MIB.
Are there ways to argue around that? yeah, but it's just my gut that this is multi-timeline/MIB-William thing is an Abrams-style red herring
yeah, just expansion. It's not like the show can give a big exposition on the Bicameral Mind, it's a rather large psychological theory
did memento have multiple timelines? if you think no, then that's how. if you think yes, i have no answer.
FWIW, it does appear as though William is holding the same knife to Logan's throat that MIB uses in his story line... I could be wrong but they seemed to put a lot of emphasis on that knife and if you re watch I think there may be something to that....
The photo is in two different conditions.
I'll be happy to eat crow if I'm wrong
Can see both sides really easily.
I think multiple timelines is true but not convinced yet that MiB=William
but he entered the building right after she expected william to enter then she was overcome with fear
if that's not enough proof i don't know what is
with how you're acting right now I hope you're not going to get mad again if someone tags you to laugh at you if you're wrong about this.
She left William with a big hole in her gut. Notice she looks down after running away and it's no longer there. It's a different time trekking the same path.
if someone tags me? probably
if someone laughs at me? no, i can handle being wrong.
i work nights and don't have the chance to watch until the following morning but would still like to be able to waste time on tmb. so as long as there is no tagging or quoting until i've posted in the thread i won't have a problem.
i'm not saying they aren't the same, i'm just saying that isn't the proof we're looking for. i personally have no stance on who he is at this point because it is obviously written/produced/directed in a confusing manner and i'm tired of trying to follow it and would rather just sit back and enjoy the show.
Sooooo because she was scared that MiB walks in when she is expecting (expecting my ass she was just hoping to robot God that it was William and not someone that wants to kill her) that is certifiable proof that William = MiB?
I'm sorry but you'll need to expound a bit for THAT to be the straw that broke camels back on the William=MiB theory
Especially the "overcome with fear" part... what have we seen from William in this season that would make her be afraid of him? And you CANNOT use MiB's actions to answer this because it's not confirmed that he's William.
Edit - wait were you being sarcastic? Your post directly above this makes it seem like you were being sarcastic in the original post I quoted
i like this show
that was like 800% sarcasm. i don't think the scene proves anything except it's less likely mib=william due to a seemingly enlightened dolores with memories being afraid of the guy.
but there are many signs that point to william being mib so perhaps he (william) does something in the finale to make dolores fear her
then again, if she knew she feared him from something in the past why would she seem to be excited to see him (william) before mib opens the door.
Reasons why nothing in this episode proved diddly squat (forgot how much i love this term until grandmother used it over thanksgiving) on the MiB/William front to me:
1) William going psycho on soldiers
Cool the guy went Hannibal Lector on a camp of soldiers. I originally said that MiB was a Psycho/crazy/evil person when this debate started 30 pages ago and NYGator/Buffalo actually convinced me from their side that MiB isn't psycho/crazy/evil. He just kills robots because he realizes they're robots and don't matter (more Loganish than William). So William doing something certifiably insane and diabolical (killing all of them would be fine... you don't wanna be followed. but one review said it looked like the bodies had been eaten. but he definitely sawed off a bunch of limbs with a hunting knife) doesn't even line up with MiB's killing for purpose.
I think the scene kinda pointed to the contrary... and he's still in love with Dolores even after seeing her robot insides. Crazy, Stupid, Robot-Love.
So if MiB=William I'm interested to see what happens to make him give up on Digital Love. Possible that he witnesses her get "wiped" to where she forgets their entire journey and doesn't recognize him anymore or know about her newly acquired #lifegoals - I could absolutely buy that, if it happens. But right now he still wants to spend his life with her, and MiB clearly does not have one romantic feeling towards her and doesn't seem to have been that way for a while.
2) Church scene
Already mentioned in the last post Why is she scared of MiB if that's William? Why is she not comforted by the fact that it IS William that walks in, even if it's a 30 years older William? Her saying "William" before he walks in is too red-herringish to me. I think she said the only name of anyone in any of her timelines that would be comforting to see. ***What about Teddy, bitch? Gave up on Teddy Dreams that quick and kicked him to the curb for some dude that tried to help you 30 years ago? You need to be askin WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR ME LATELY???
I think Dolores saying William? in the church is 1 of 2 things.
She's in a fog from her overlapping journeys and knows William was with her at some point.
She remembers that MIB is William from an interaction we haven't been shown yet and she's finally thinking clearly.
she said it before he walked in
From the moment she stands up she's definitely in a fog and confused as hell from the rest of the episode. and she should be... she was right by the damn church 2 episodes ago when she saw her dead body in the river and turns around and William isn't there. If there's 2 timelines with the same thing happening - she's at the church town in that scene. Why the hell did she leave??? and if Logan isn't around why does she end up at that tree running from people?
Main thing I haven't been able to wrap my head around is why her journey is following exactly the way it did with William - when the Logan factor isn't there in the current time. There was no Logan in the present to A) Tell the army that her and William screwed them over and explosives are on a train, and B) Find her and William and capture them/make her run away while being chased... She's just doing a bunch of extra walking for funsies? she living in some state of perpetual hallucinations from 30 years ago and saw a town still covered with sand in episode ~7 when it's clearly been excavated in the present time? She jump off Lawrences train when there wasn't an ambush just because why not? (we saw that Lawrence wasn't even on the train in the present).
if we really do get all the answers and MiB=William then I'm ready for a grandpa Ford fireside chat where he spends 20 minutes telling the viewers why she's doing all this shit instead of just going to the church. If not then the writers just made her do all of this unnecessary shit to fuck with viewers...
Then I guess I'll find out Sunday.
this is from my buddy, I would enjoy Maeve being his new "story" or Ford being a part of it...remember Ford: "I built ALL of this."
ford is making all these hosts essentially to be replicas of real life. hes trying to create a world where he and his loved ones can live forever, and he hates the board cause A- they stifle his dreams and B- he blames them for arnolds death.
and i think his "new storyline" is maeve. hes making maeve lead a host revolt to scare the board, and then he will come in and save the day so the board backs off
i dont think maeve is sentient, i think shes just carrying out another of ford's crazy missions
Wouldn't it just be awful if we don't find out the identity of mib?
I'm going to put the chances of that happening at about -4,815,162,342%. There has been specific talk about the show not ending on some cliffhanger and pretty much all the questions we have should be answered.
so in between william and delores going to the chapel when it was covered. we are to believe that ford excavated it before she went back right, and thats where the MIB walks in?
hey, it could happen
also during the finale Odin gonna get tagged 10x just because