SCOTUS Thread

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by harvey birdman, Dec 8, 2015.

  1. Drown ‘Em

    Drown ‘Em Well-Known Member
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    That’s not exactly correct. Yes, FDR tried to get the legislation passed to add to the court, but he didn’t even have the support in his own party to get it passed out of committee. So, SCOTUS wasn’t really worried about that. And the whole “switch in time that saved nine” idea isn’t totally accurate as the arguments for that case happened before FDR announced sending the legislation to expand SCOTUS to congress. The reason SCOTUS “got in line” with new deal policies is because in less than four years that followed that failed attempt, FDR appointed EIGHT justices, including the opening of his first seat, which opened weeks after the failed attempt.
     
  2. naganole

    naganole Look, I am a really big deal around here...
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    Thomas or Alito would likely be the next seats to open based on age, but neither seem like they are on the verge of leaving. Might have this court for the next 5 years or so.
     
  3. NoNatty

    NoNatty Keyboard Cowboy
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    if Trump wins they’re retire.
     
  4. Lip

    Lip Well-Endowed Member
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    maybe they’ll go the way of Scalia and not leave by choice
     
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  5. pnk$krtcrÿnästÿ

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    I can't think of much that would make me have a better day than either Alito or Thomas dying suddenly. Only thing I can think of is one of the younger conservative justices dying instead.
     
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  6. pnk$krtcrÿnästÿ

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    Like Kavanaugh dies of heart attack while having sex with trans immigrant prostitute. What a great day.
     
  7. Truman

    Truman Well-Known Member
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    Contempt of Court - Elie Mystal's new SCOTUS podcast started this week. Havent had a chance to listen yet, but Im sure it will be very good. Because he is very good
     
  8. Lip

    Lip Well-Endowed Member
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    sex worker*
     
  9. PeterGriffin

    PeterGriffin Iced and/or sweet tea is for dirty rednecks.
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    I only just recently heard Mystal's SCOTUS plan (or one of them, idk). Paraphrasing: 29 justices, 3 randomly selected per case, they judge on it, then if the majority of the 29 disagree, it goes to a full 29-judge hearing. That right there is some proper shit I would support.
     
  10. Illinihockey

    Illinihockey Well-Known Member
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    I look forward to future 800 page 15-14 decisions with 11 separate dissents and 9 concurrences
     
  11. Tommy Jefferson

    Tommy Jefferson Well-Known Member
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    Podcast sounds interesting but before I listen I want to be be on the record that court expansion won’t happen until republicans are in control and whatever new seats will be entirely filled with their clowns. Democrats are too busy trying to follow what is commonly accepted as the normal procedure to come to terms with the reality.
     
  12. bwi2

    bwi2 Not affiliated with BWI
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    at the end of the day any political question still comes down to who has a majority on the court and whether those people have greater fidelity to the law or their partisan predilections. This would just prolong that process (which in turn prolongs the period by which the court’s decision to grant emergency relief or not to act has import).

    I think what Congress could immediately do to rein the courts in (and it’s not just the Supreme Court, a lot of the District Court decisions are more outrageous from a separation of powers standpoint):

    1) Pass a law that establishes that the major questions doctrine is an invalid canon of statutory interpretation

    2) Redraw and reconfigure district boundaries and jurisdictional statutes such that no plaintiff may ever choose their judge by virtue of where they file their lawsuit

    3) Prohibit nationwide injunctions as a form of relief available prior to the merits
     
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  13. drewru

    drewru Well-Known Member
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    Read last night that the chance we have a dem-nominated majority is unlikely prior to 2065. Loved RGB but she fucked us all. Based on the statistical analysis, she pushed the chance of a dem majority back by 27 years iirc.
     
  14. bro

    bro Hey Hermano
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    it is hard to predict when people will die. Thomas could die later this year. He could also serve another 2 decades.
     
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  15. Pile Driving Miss Daisy

    Pile Driving Miss Daisy It angries up the blood
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    Scalia was freakishly unhealthy, but old racist Senators and Judges never die if they're not in the absolute worst shape a human can be. It's absolutely incredible and evil, it proves to me there is not god.
     
  16. drewru

    drewru Well-Known Member
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    She was a 2x cancer survivor and 80 years old in 2013 when Obama could have replaced her.

    Thomas and Alito retire if an R is elected president next term.
     
  17. bro

    bro Hey Hermano
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    my comment was not related to RBG
     
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  18. NoNatty

    NoNatty Keyboard Cowboy
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    lol at thinking they would let Biden appoint someone if Thomas died this year.
     
  19. drewru

    drewru Well-Known Member
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    I don’t think bro was saying that. But if he (Thomas)did, Dems currently control the Senate so…::quickly prays for Thomas to drop dead::
     
  20. Redav

    Redav One big ocean
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    It was a miracle Scalia lived as long as he did. He was obese and smoked. Most people with those risk factors don't live to 80
     
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  21. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
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    How could they stop it? Am I missing something?
     
  22. JGator1

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    Of course not, no idea what he's talking about. On the other hand a GOP controlled Senate will never again allow a Dem president to appoint another SCOTUS judge.
     
  23. Blu Tang Clan

    Blu Tang Clan Sorry for partying
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    I’m glad I’m not the only one who didn’t understand the NoNatty post.
     
  24. Lip

    Lip Well-Endowed Member
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    I think he meant (((they)))

    the (((globalists)))
     
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  25. NoNatty

    NoNatty Keyboard Cowboy
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    yes, I have full confidence that Sinema and Manchin will support an appointment with less than a year before an election. Not to mention Feinstein potentially going into a nursing home at any moment.
     
  26. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
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    I mean I guess that could happen but this isn't Garland where the Senate and Potus were split. It'd be ACB who was rammed through. They'd wheel Feinstein in for that one. Doesn't matter bc we're not lucky enough for Thomas to die today.
     
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  27. drewru

    drewru Well-Known Member
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    I mean, the former two have supported every lower court nom thus far. As to the latter, for a SCOTUS Justice they are either pulling a weekend at Bernie’s or Newsom is appointing someone whose going to vote the party line….are you sure you didn’t just forget that Dems controlled the senate and only need 50? Because these seems like a pretty weak argument. Not saying it couldn’t happen, but it’s far fetched.
     
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  28. drewru

    drewru Well-Known Member
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    Pray harder damn it
     
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  29. NoNatty

    NoNatty Keyboard Cowboy
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    this is a lot of confidence for the way things have unfolded over the past 7 years.
     
  30. PeterGriffin

    PeterGriffin Iced and/or sweet tea is for dirty rednecks.
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    Don't you know about decorum?! What about the unwritten rules of Congress? Norms? Don't you remember them?
     
  31. NCHusker

    NCHusker We named our yam Pam. It rhymed.
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    I'm like 99% sure Cinnamon would use a SCOTUS nom as an opportunity to be back in the spotlight
     
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  32. BudKilmer

    BudKilmer Well-Known Member
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  33. lomcevak

    lomcevak The suck zone
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    Sewer - good as always:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...rt-affirmative-action-clarence-thomas/674641/

    The Most Baffling Argument a Supreme Court Justice Has Ever Made


    An opinion from Justice Clarence Thomas exposed the limits of originalism.

    Midway through his concurrence with the Supreme Court’s decision to strike down affirmative action, Justice Clarence Thomas deploys one of the most absurd and baffling arguments ever put to paper by a justice.

    In order to argue that the Framers of the Fourteenth Amendment did not intend to authorize racially specific efforts to alleviate inequality, Thomas finds himself forced to explain the existence of the Freedmen’s Bureau, which was reauthorized in 1866 by the same Congress that approved the Fourteenth Amendment. To square this circle, Thomas insists that the term freedmen was a “formally race-neutral category” and a “decidedly underinclusive proxy for race.”

    The 1866 Freedmen’s Bureau Act then expanded upon the prior year’s law, authorizing the Bureau to care for all loyal refugees and freedmen … Importantly, however, the Acts applied to freedmen (and refugees), a formally race-neutral category, not blacks writ large. And, because “not all blacks in the United States were former slaves,” “‘freedman’” was a decidedly underinclusive proxy for race.

    If “freedmen” were a “formally race-neutral category,” then the Fourteenth Amendment does not authorize race-conscious efforts to remedy racial discrimination, and affirmative action cannot be constitutional. As an originalist, Thomas is supposed to interpret the Fourteenth Amendment as it was understood at the time it was written. He is attempting to reconcile his philosophy of judicial interpretation with what the history actually says; the other originalist justices do not really try, perhaps aware of the awkwardness of doing so. The problem, though, is that Thomas’s interpretation is obviously incorrect. His efforts at reconciliation ultimately illustrate the extent to which “originalism” is merely a process of exploiting history to justify conservative policy preferences, and not a neutral philosophical framework.

    “Freedmen” cannot be a “formally race-neutral category,” because American slavery was not a formally race-neutral institution. Moreover, an extensive historical record illuminates the intentions of the lawmakers who passed the Freedmen’s Bureau Acts. They certainly did not see the term freedmen as racially neutral, and they intended the bureau to protect the rights of Black people in the South, whether formerly enslaved or not. We know this because they said so; the insistence to the contrary is the result of conservatives projecting their version of “color blindness” backwards through time.

    “I don’t think Justice Thomas is correct—freedman was widely used as a synonym for Black,” Eric Foner, the Pulitzer Prize–winning author of Reconstruction, a historian cited in Thomas’s concurrence, told me in an email. “Ninety percent of Blacks were slaves in 1860, and everyone knew whom the Freedman’s Bureau Act was meant to assist.”

    Republican lawmakers in the 1860s did not believe that targeting aid to Black people contradicted, as Thomas writes, a “commitment to equal rights for all citizens, regardless of the color of their skin.” They saw such racially conscious efforts as fulfilling that commitment. These lawmakers did not share modern liberal sensitivities either—contemporary perspectives on interracial marriage and integrated schools would have been foreign to nearly all of them, except perhaps Thaddeus Stevens and Charles Sumner. Figuring out what the words they wrote meant at the time they wrote them requires understanding the very different dynamics of their era.

    “The obvious problem is the mutually reinforcing relationship and considerable—if not complete—overlap between status and race at the time. The fact that not every Black person was recently freed didn’t make freedman a ‘race neutral’ term as used and understood during the 1860s,” Stephen West, a history professor at Catholic University, told me. “When Americans of the time talked about freedmen, they knew they were talking about Black people. And they knew that the association of Blackness with slavery marked the lives of Black people who hadn’t been recently enslaved.”

    West was one of the historians who submitted a brief to the Court that exhaustively documents not only the extent to which Republican lawmakers saw their efforts as race-conscious, but the extent to which their Democratic opposition saw them the same way. As a Republican lawmaker put it during the debates over one of the Freedmen’s Bureau Acts, “The very object of the bill is to break down the discrimination between whites and blacks” and to provide for “the amelioration of the condition of the colored people.” One of the authors of the 1866 Freedman’s Bureau Act made clear that its aim was “to educate, improve, enlighten, and Christianize the negro; to make him an independent man; to teach him to think and to reason; to improve that principle which the great Author of all has implanted in every human breast.”

    Its opponents, meanwhile, described it as “class legislation—legislation for a particular class of the blacks to the exclusion of all whites.” They complained, in rhetoric that has hardly changed in more than a century, that “hundreds and thousands of the negro race have been supported out of the Treasury of the United States, and you and I and the white people of this country are taxed to pay that expense.”

    Thomas observes that “the Freedmen’s Bureau served newly freed slaves alongside white refugees.” But this distinction only emphasizes the fact that freedmen was not “underinclusive” of Black people, because the law conferred distinct benefits to “freedmen” that were not extended to “refugees,” including support for establishing educational institutions for Black children. Indeed, the full name of the bureau was the Bureau of Refugees, Freedmen, and Abandoned Lands, denoting a conscious distinction between the categories. As one Republican lawmaker cited in the brief put it, “We are interfering in behalf of the negro; let us interfere to educate him.” General O. O. Howard, the commissioner of the Freedmen’s Bureau, wrote in his memoir that “to these two classes, negroes and whites, were usually given the names of freedmen and refugees.”

    Some of the bill’s supporters argued openly that the disparate treatment of the two groups was both deliberate and necessary. “The very discrimination it makes between ‘destitute and suffering’ negroes and destitute and suffering white paupers,” one Republican congressman asserted, “proceeds upon the distinction that, in the omitted case, civil rights and immunities are already sufficiently protected by the possession of political power, the absence of which in the case provided for necessitates governmental protection.”

    As another of the legislation’s defenders argued:

    We owe something to these freedmen, and this bill rightly administered, invaluable as it will be, will not balance the account. We have done nothing to them, as a race, but injury. They, as a people, have done nothing to us but good … We reduced the fathers to slavery, and the sons have periled life to keep us free. That is the way history will state the case. Now, then, we have struck off their chains. Shall we not help them to find homes? They have not had homes yet.

    Included in the category of the “sons [who] have periled life to keep us free” were the many freeborn Black soldiers who defended the republic.

    But look, you don’t have to take my word for it that freedmen was widely understood as a synonym for Black. You don’t have to take Foner’s or West’s word for it. You can take Clarence Thomas’s word for it, because in the 2022 Bruen decision, in which the Supreme Court struck down state restrictions on gun possession, Thomas uses the terms freedmen and blacks or negroes interchangeably.

    For example, Thomas writes that “in the years before the 39th Congress proposed the Fourteenth Amendment, the Freedmen’s Bureau regularly kept it abreast of the dangers to blacks and Union men in the postbellum South.” Not “freedmen and Union men,” but “blacks and Union men.” Thomas uses blacks here in reference to those protected by the Freedmen’s Bureau, and distinguished from the more race-neutral Union men, precisely because he understood that it did not matter to the defeated Confederates what a Black man’s prior condition of servitude was. He does the same thing in another passage cited by the New Republic legal reporter Matt Ford. Here we have the glorious alchemy of originalism in full view, where the “original meaning” of the same words in an identical context changes depending on which policy is preferred by the originalist.

    The authors of the Fourteenth Amendment were trying to undo a racially oppressive labor caste system, so they needed to focus on race. They would not have been trying to do so in a “race neutral” way, because they were not a party to 20th- and 21st-century conflict over the limited number of places in the factories of elite reproduction. The “originalism” that purports to examine the Reconstruction amendments as they were seen at the time replaces the perspective of their creators with the sensibilities of the contemporary conservative movement, in which virtually any form of discrimination can be justified by a veneer of color blindness while every means to pursue equality is constitutionally suspect. Thus a president can rant publicly about wanting to ban an entire religion from American shores and have his aims sanitized by white-shoe lawyers to the majority’s satisfaction, while race-conscious methods of fighting anti-Black discrimination are treated as the moral equivalent of a segregated water fountain.

    This is not simply an inversion of the Fourteenth Amendment and the intent of the lawmakers who wrote it, but a replication of the arguments made by the opponents of its ratification. Justice Sonia Sotomayor, whose opinion is arguably more originalist in its reliance on the actual historical context of the era, observes as much in her dissent, noting that “nothing in the Fourteenth Amendment or its history supports the Court’s shocking proposition, which echoes arguments made by opponents of Reconstruction-era laws.”

    The promise of originalism is that, by interpreting constitutional amendments as they were understood at the time, judges minimize the risk of lawless rulings that simply reflect their own preferences. In theory, originalism should not necessarily lead to a justice’s preferred outcome, preventing the law from being corrupted by personal bias. Perhaps you think affirmative action is immoral or bad policy; perhaps you think it largely benefits the most well-off minority students. Maybe you think the legal rationale of “diversity” used to defend it is strained. Maybe you agree with those who argue affirmative action is to blame for discrimination against Asian applicants, or that there are other, more class-oriented means to achieve affirmative action’s goals.

    But the issue here is: Did the authors of the Fourteenth Amendment see efforts to help Black Americans as unconstitutional discrimination against white people? They very clearly didn’t. At the time, that was the position of the men who would have been just as happy if slavery had never been abolished at all.

    The question is supposed to be what the Constitution allows, not what policies a justice prefers. As Thomas put it in a speech in 2019, “Words have meaning at the time they are written. When we read something that someone else has written, we give the words and phrases used by that person natural meaning in context.” To that he might have added, “Unless we don’t like the context.”

    In 2014, the law professor Joel K. Goldstein observed that Thomas tends to rely less on originalism when judging race-related cases than “moral, consequentialist, and policy-oriented arguments that trigger his criticism—even outrage—in other contexts.” This might explain Thomas’s outburst at Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, dismissing her for seeking to “empower privileged elites.” Thomas is not used to invoking his—what’s the phrase? lived experience?—and having it challenged by someone with similar authority and a different perspective. Perhaps Thomas can discuss the malign influence of privileged elites on Supreme Court justices on his next fully paid vacation with the conservative billionaire Harlan Crow.

    The Fourteenth Amendment authorized race-conscious remedies for discrimination against Black people. The people who wrote the amendment understood it that way. The people who opposed the amendment understood it that way. But that is not the outcome Thomas or the Court’s other originalists wanted, so they waved it away as irrelevant.

    In a recent ruling striking down a prohibition on gun possession for convicted felons, the federal judge Carlton Reeves wrote that the Supreme Court’s precedents, in particular Thomas’s Bruen opinion, bound him to a certain conclusion, which is that nearly all firearm restrictions are unconstitutional. Nevertheless, Reeves lamented originalism’s focus on interpreting history, because “it is not clear that founding‐era Americans collectively agreed that for time immemorial, their descendants would be bound by the founding generation’s views on how the Constitution should be read.” The authors of the Fourteenth Amendment may have intended the opposite of that.

    But let’s not fool ourselves. The purpose of originalism as the right-wing justices practice it is to provide a basis for ruling in favor of conservative policy outcomes that borrows the moral authority of those they see as the protagonists of American history. The history itself doesn’t matter. If it did, we wouldn’t be here.
     
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  34. NYGator

    NYGator Well-Known Member
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  35. Name P. Redacted

    Name P. Redacted I have no money and I'm also gay
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    …really?
     
  36. fattus

    fattus Well-Known Member
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    People tell me I should stop smoking and lose weight or I won’t live to see 70.

    I’m like, “Promise?”
     
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  37. fattus

    fattus Well-Known Member
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  38. NCHusker

    NCHusker We named our yam Pam. It rhymed.
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    Boston Legal was a good show.
     
  39. bro

    bro Hey Hermano
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    I’m begging you to stop posting that account
     
  40. BudKilmer

    BudKilmer Well-Known Member
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    That’s because the Big 12 and PAC ain’t real ball PAWWLLLL

    AINT GOT NO D LINEMEN PAWL
     
  41. NYGator

    NYGator Well-Known Member
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    I didn't notice the account when I posted it, but why so I know going forward? I don't follow it.
     
    #6391 NYGator, Jul 9, 2023
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2023
  42. JGator1

    JGator1 I'm the Michael Jordan of the industry
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  43. Lip

    Lip Well-Endowed Member
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    worth it
     
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  44. Fire Jimbob

    Fire Jimbob Texas A&M is basically sports hell
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    There is nothing I want to see more than for Clarence and Ginni Thomas to die in the most slow and painful death possible.

     
  45. BudKilmer

    BudKilmer Well-Known Member
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  46. Redav

    Redav One big ocean
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    Conservatives really have a deep bench of comic book villains
     
  47. Hank Scorpio

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  48. timo

    timo molto brutto
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    Horatio Alger was a Jerry Sandusky tier pedophile.

    :twocents: :themoreyouknow:
     
  49. NoNatty

    NoNatty Keyboard Cowboy
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    Whenever I see Horatio Alger I think of Horatio Sanz and get confused about the relationship to Clarence Thomas.
     
  50. theseasonisover

    theseasonisover Well-Known Member
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    i think of tyson alger hashtag deepcut