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Discussion in 'Game of Thrones (ASOIAF)' started by 34, Sep 26, 2017.
It’s only six of the original seven.
courtesy of Cza
If she sails south out of KL and around Westeros to the west she will probably end up in Sothoryos
Trying to decide whose character development got fucked the most be this truncated season. Obviously Dany spending 2 scenes as the Mad Queen and promptly getting murked is fucking wild, but let’s not sleep on Jon learning his true parentage and that not meaning jack shit in the end though. I get him not sitting the throne, but we don’t even know how he even feels about that shit. His whole life has been shaped by the fact that he’s a bastard, and we get no exposition? Inexcusable. And these assholes have known since around season 4 that Bran would ascend the throne and they wrote him down to a smug monotone robot? Sheesh.
I am pretty sure Jon's speaking lines since learning his parentage have been >50% of a variation of "you are my queen" or "she is our queen." It's laughable.
Think they forgot he could time travel too.
"I don't want it "
I’ll stan for how R+L=J played out until the end of time. For Dany, it makes sense that it would be threatening to her. It is an atomic bomb thrown into everyone’s well laid plans over decades. If fatass ever finished, it will be done more artfully, but the broad strokes there make sense.
But that’s all it is: a fact. Not destiny (which is hard for fan fictiony, theorizing types to stomach). For Jon, the crown never interested him and never will. So his lineage becomes a burden, because this world puts great weight behind primogeniture. Jon doing his duty, returning to the Watch like Aemon before him, and being where he belongs on a personal level feels very right.
Possibly. Only a couple of people have ever returned. The ones that did return, got to a certain point and turned around because of storms
I really wanted her to be sailing with Yara. That would be a sick team-up. I guess she has to rule the Iron Islands or whatever, gosh.
Word has apparently gotten around about Arya
Yara: fuck this shit, kill Jon, dany was my ride or die
Arya: say another word and I’ll put your face in my bag
Yara: ok everyone the iron islands are officially down with whatever y’all decide today please proceed
Something I noticed when Brienne was finishing Jaime's story in the White Book: the line about Tyrion killing Joffrey was the last line of the previous entry, and she left it in there when she was adding her text. It struck me because it speaks to the lack of reliability of some of the written sources within the ASOIAF universe. Makes me wonder if that was something intentional the show runners left in there to demonstrate how things like that can happen and skew people's perception/understanding of past events (lol), or if they just didn't realize that or know how to handle it. As an aside, I cannot recall whether in the show Brienne ever learned Tyrion did not poison Joffrey, but my point still stands about the lack of reliability of texts (and perhaps prophecies, legends, and etc.) in the universe. It would probably be a lot cooler if that was something from the books (which would likely be intentional) as opposed to the show. Anyway just something that stood out to me.
The show isn't that deep
Obligatory: Showrunners forgot how Joffrey died
Absolutely. I mean, the scene itself is a victor (Brienne) getting to write the history of a deceased person, which she does in a very favorable light. There are millions in the world who, given that quill, would have written a much different story about Jamie.
Yeah, also a good point about perceptions and the "victors" writing history, etc.
I'll give you this, you're the best on the board at putting lipstick on this pig.
And your criticism tends to be the most nuanced and respectable
Wait this was a compliment right? Because otherwise I’m taking mine back
Kind of a backhanded compliment i guess. Imo the show is clearly shit, but of its remaining staunch defenders, your posts are the only ones that have ever given me pause and made me reevaluate.
Can't take yours back, it's out there forever
What I noticed about Brienne writing that was when she flipped the page and there was already a bunch of text already written on page 2 of Jamie's entry.
Sam was thirsty
You just hit me with the classic no-take-backsies, similar to that ESPN Instant Classic scene where Sansa Stark committed to king Bran last and promptly seceded her kingdom before they could back out. You sly devil
all we’re left with is a got damn wooden throne :/
Heelys version tho
if you do that ending, you need to have him choose it and not have it thrust upon him in order to placate a bunch of eunuchs
I know this is nothing more than fanfic but I'm gonna pretend it's the epilogue of A Dream of Spring and it makes me feel better.
I like the idea of him living with a crime. He killed his self professed queen and has regrets. I don’t mind getting sentenced to appease someone, but fully agree the unsullied demanding justice for him is silly. Greyworm should have tried to kill him. They should’ve gave Yara a bigger voice in the sentencing situation, perhaps also commit Dorne to her cause of justice.
she started with something like 8k full soldiers and another 5k in training. half of them died against the army of the dead.
One thought that crossed my mind last night was how pissed the Iron Bank must be for doubling down on Cersei...lol
After much time spent on the toilet reflecting, I’ve determined my favorite character of the entire show to be Sansa
Which, given her abysmal book chapters and first half of the show, I never thought I’d say.
Even the fanfic completely ignores the fact Jon is a Targaryen.
R+L = 0
Lol damn. It was like probably 800 words of a fan-written epilogue laying out the reign of King Bran the Broken, the time of peace and prosperity, the Queen in the North, bla bla bla. It gave me a small sliver of peace. I am cool with where the characters ended up, but not obviously with the execution of getting them there.
Here is a copy paste of the original post:
> In the long years of his reign, King Brandon Stark was not loved by the smallfolk nearly so much as the quietude of his rule. Bran himself was a distant and near-silent king, with no taste for great celebrations or inspiring rhetoric. But when the Driftwood Queen demanded the independence of the Iron Islands in 313 AC, Bran granted it almost immediately; the expanded fleet that the Greyjoys had long laboured over had hardly left its harbours before the raven returned from King’s Landing. Dorne’s autonomy grew not with violence, but with carefully negotiated partnership, and though now Ornelia Martell is styled the Princess of Dorne, the Maesters of Oldtown would say that the lands beyond the Red Mountains are more closely entwined – through trade and goodwill – with the Five Kingdoms than ever before. It is said that, though the Seven Kingdoms became Six through the sacrifice of a million lives, the Six became Five without a single drop of spilt blood.
These years of calm saw the turn of seven long summers and seven mild winters. The external threats to Bran’s reign – the Braavosi blockade of 309, sponsored by the Iron Bank and facilitated by many mercenaries; the Second Crossing of the Dothraki Khalasar in 318; the Septons’ Rising of 331 or the coming of the Red Refugees in the decade afterward – seemed less desperate in comparison to the crises endured by King’s Landing in the warlike years before, as if an invisible hand were directing events, by slight nudges, toward the ends of stability and prosperity. Though terrible battles were rumoured in many parts of Essos, their effects were seldom felt in Westeros. One might also have expected some friction to arise from the King’s worship of the Old Gods, but Bran’s habits were so private, and his style of rule so tolerant, that for a time it seemed impossible that internal strife and religious discord could ever have been the hallmark of the Six – and then the Five – Kingdoms.
The absence of vengeful dragons surely helped. There are folk in Volantis who, in exchange for a cup of sweet wine, will tell the tale of their fathers or grandfathers catching sight of a great winged creature that obscured the waning moon in its eastbound flight, high above the city. Some of the Ghiscari traders who can now be so frequently found in Planky Town or Storm's End tell a similar story: that in the cold night after the death of the Dragon Queen, her last child, screaming with anguish, caused many a night-time watcher to return to their decks in great haste. Daenerys was carried far into the east, perhaps as far as the Shadowlands or the unknown forests of Ulthos. What became of her remains is not known. Some say the creature flew until fatigue brought it plummeting into deep, uncharted waters. Others suggest that reports of dragons - fleeting glimpses, disappearing livestock, bone-chilling cries in the lonely places of the world - are not always the product of fancy or hysteria.
Bran outlived every member of his original Small Council, and outlasted – as far as can be known for certain – every other Stark. Of his sister Arya, the Hero of Winterfell, little was ever heard again: she sailed West, beyond the reckoning and knowledge of all, within days of her brother’s coronation, leaving only the rumours that are shared and rendered into stories in every town of Westeros and Essos: of a single, ragged-looking Raven that flew out of a storm over the Western Sea decades later and on to the last high tower of the Red Keep, bearing a message whose contents were seen only by the King and his closest advisors. The tale that is most often told is that Arya reached the land that is West of West, and shared what details she could of the wonders and terrors she found there before meeting her own mysterious fate. What is certainly true is that, slowly and deliberately, Bran has been fortifying the Western coast of the Five Kingdoms throughout the latter part of his reign.
Sansa Stark, the Queen in the North, maintained strong relations with her brother’s kingdom and toward the end of her life was frequently to be found in the courts of King’s Landing or Dorne, having inherited from her mother a preference for the warmth. After her passing in 371 her bannermen selected Harrold Royce to rule the North.
Of the fate of Jon Snow – the Bastard of Winterfell, the Half-Stark, the Queenslayer, the Resurrected, the Friend of Wolves, twice named Lord Commander of Castle Black – very little is known. The Hand of the King, Tyrion Lannister, visited the North and the Wall in the first decade after Snow's return to the Night’s Watch. Of that visit he records that the Wall was all but unmanned, and that those who stood upon it were facing south, rather than north. The Hand was told that Jon Snow had, years earlier, gone forth with a great company of wildlings and northerners, disappearing into the dark forests of the Lands of Always Winter. Their exploration of those unmapped places are the subject of much conjecture: that Snow had been named the King Beyond the Wall, that he had made contact with the last enclaves of the Children of the Forest, that he was overseeing the settling of great underground cities among the twisting, interconnected roots of the Weirwood trees. It is said that the Greyjoys know something of those northernmost lands, and that Sansa Stark, before her death, knew more, but would not tell. The Lonely King, Bran the Broken, Bran the Bridgemaker, Bran the Wheelbreaker, surely knew more still – but in his quiet places and sanctuaries around King’s Landing, he seldom spoke a word, and to each successive Hand and Archmaester he entrusted fewer of his thoughts.
Finally, in 382 AC, at the start of his eighth winter, King Brandon embarked upon a final journey. He had aged but slowly in all the years of his reign, but age had come upon him nevertheless. His Kingsguard escorted him on the first leg of his journey – a secretive consultation followed by long weeks of contemplation or reading in Oldtown – and then took him as far as the Wall when at last he travelled North. After a night in the almost uninhabited Castle Black, Bran ordered the Kingsguard to return to Winterfell, and so on to the Five Kingdoms, where they were to supervise the selection of a new King of Westeros.
The last of the Starks then travelled North, beyond the wall, quite alone. The Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch reported that distant figures joined the King’s horse just before it disappeared into the treeline. No sight or word of King Bran has been heard in the long years since.
The winters are deeper now, and though King’s Landing is again fair and no great wars have troubled Westeros for many decades, some of the world’s wonder has diminished since the end of the time of Bran the Wheelbreaker.
Martin probably sent whoever wrote that a cease and desist.
Not sure if this was posted already
BUT WHERE DO WHORES GO?!
So I guess Sansa never marries in this version? Meh.
I’m happy my boy Jon gets to chill but I still can’t believe how badly his family fucked him. The Starks really ain’t shit lmao.
This is why him leaving with the Wildlings makes no sense. He took the black as punishment for his crimes. Actions he is openly conflicted over. His honor would never allow him to just "peace out" and leave the Watch under those circumstances.
Also Greyworm slaughtered innocent people in the streets, he's fucking war criminal. How was he not executed, let alone given the power to determine Jon's fate?
Bran/Three Eyed Raven is the most evil villain in the entire story. He knew millions of innocents would die and he ignored it so he could be put in power. And the writers don't even acknowledge it. It would have been so easy to have him drop a line or smirk revealing that this was his whole plan all along. Instead we get him smiling with telling Jon this was his purpose all along. As if the slaughter of thousands of women and children was all just a side plot in the grand scheme of how things needed happen.
On your first point: how do you know he’s not just helping Tormund resettle the wildlings?
Second point: I don’t really think there’s such a thing as “war criminals” at this time in history. Once Jon killed Dany, Dany’s forces and the Westerosi lords were instantly at war. The Westerosi lords are trying to retake KL without further bloodshed because apparently Greyworm still has thousands of soldiers trained from birth ready to go. They made it very clear that the Unsullied had control of the city and the dragonpit scene was a negotiation. He had the power to determine Jon’s fate because he had the military power and Jon as his prisoner. Not sure what’s confusing there?
For the first point, that would make even less sense than what they showed. You really got the sense that he was just going to help them then come back to the wall? I don't think that's an assumption 99% of the audience would make.
They definitely have war criminals in this timeline. Jaime was a kingslayer and supposed to be punished for it regardless of his side winning. It was a big deal that Tywin blocked him from taking the black. Jon just was forced to take the black for war crimes. I could see that they didn't execute Greyworm because they were scared of his military power. But to treat him as an equal and not acknowledge that he led the charge to murder women and children in the streets in nonsense.
Also if that scene was a negotiation, then the whole "our king decides his fate" and Greyworm backing off doesn't make sense either
I find these types of arguments nauseating and neckbeardy, but I’ll bite again
First point: in this thread and other discussions I’ve seen, Jon’s destination is ambiguous. When he looks over his shoulder to the closing gate, it’s a pretty classic cliffhanger signal from the writers as to that ambiguity. I think it connected with you in a certain way, and there’s nothing wrong with that. That’s why writers write ambiguous endings that mean different things to different viewers. I don’t really have a quibble with your overarching point of it not being an effective character arc, just pointing out that your interpretation of the scene doesn’t seem to be as common as you think
Second: Jamie committed treason. Jon committed treason. And again, Greyworm is treated as an “equal” because they’re at war with him. Would you prefer the Stark children threaten him and he promptly execute Jon?
that twat Grey worm lived bc writers probably didn’t want “racist” backlash
if Clegane were alive, he wouldn’t have let it happen
Again, Grey Worm and the Unsullied are going to die on Naath. Killer butterflies.
They butchered Missandei and appeared to have the entire Dothraki race wiped out (but actually none died lolololol). I don't think this is the reason why Grey Worm lived.
in my defense, "the you don't know, something could happen future that no one will ever see and completely changes the situation to allow it to make more sense" is an almost equally neckbeardy argument as I'm making. I guess haven't seen any other interpretation from anyone other than he's going off to live with the wildlings and/or become King of the Wildlings. You're post about him helping rebuild then going back to the Watch is literally the only time I've seen that across multiple platforms. You give D&D way too much credit, they've shown to be pretty straight forward with how they want you to interpret things.
For the second, that whole scene was problematic. I just wanted them to acknowledge him as an enemy, as someone that slaughtered women and children not just opposing soldiers. If they're at war with him why is he allowed to just stand there while they debate who will be their king. That scene wasn't just rushed, it didn't really make any sense for any multitude of reasons.