Baseball History Thread

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by bhrangerfan0809, Aug 3, 2015.

  1. bhrangerfan0809

    bhrangerfan0809 Sprinkles are for Spelling Bee Winners™
    Arkansas RazorbacksTexas RangersDallas MavericksDallas CowboysDallas Stars

    Let's have a general discussion thread for baseball history fanatics. I'll start off with a broad question: Who are the most overrated/underrated players in baseball history (including non-MLB players)?
     
  2. ashy larry

    ashy larry marcy projects, son
    Donor
    South Carolina GamecocksAtlanta Braves

    Most overrated: Jeter
    Most underrated: Chipper Jones
     
  3. TC

    TC Be humble. Sit down
    Donor
    South Carolina GamecocksSeattle Supersonics

    Chipper>Jeter
     
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  4. KJROD20

    KJROD20 the ends will justify the means.
    Florida GatorsBoston Red SoxBoston CelticsNew York Rangers

    I'm a firm believer Nolan Ryan is/was overrated. Him being tied for the highest HOF voting percentage is crazy to me.
     
  5. Joe_Pesci

    Joe_Pesci Taiwan #1
    Donor
    Oregon DucksPortland Trail BlazersDallas Cowboys

    this year was the first time one reigning mvp pitched to the other
     
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  6. bhrangerfan0809

    bhrangerfan0809 Sprinkles are for Spelling Bee Winners™
    Arkansas RazorbacksTexas RangersDallas MavericksDallas CowboysDallas Stars

    This day in baseball history:

    August 3, 1948


    Negro League legend Satchel Paige makes his first major league start, hurling seven innings to lead the Indians over the Senators, 5-3. Prior to today's game, the future Hall of Famer made eight appearances in relief, compiling a 1-1 record for the Tribe.
     
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  7. wes tegg

    wes tegg Prestone®
    Staff Donor
    Mississippi RebelsAtlanta BravesDenver BroncosChicago BlackhawksMontreal Impact

    5,714 Ks and 7 no-hitters are pretty incredible, not to mention 28 seasons.
     
  8. kslim

    kslim EMAW
    Donor
    Kansas State WildcatsKansas City RoyalsAtlanta BravesTampa Bay Buccaneers

    Overrated: cano
    Underrated: dale murphy
     
  9. wtx

    wtx you don't want zero problems big fella
    Donor
    Texas LonghornsTexas RangersWichita State Shockers

    One of the most underrated recently is Brian Giles.

    Overrated is easily Nolan Ryan. I love him but he's nowhere close to the best ever.
     
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  10. eHo

    eHo Fan of teams that never win shit and the Seahawks.
    Donor
    Georgia BulldogsSeattle MarinersSeattle SeahawksUnited States Men's National Soccer Team

    Overrated - Jack Morris
    Underrated - Tim Raines
     
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  11. ALECOCK

    ALECOCK Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG
    South Carolina GamecocksAtlanta BravesCharlotte HornetsCarolina PanthersManchester City

    Josh Gibson probably wasn't better, or even as good as Babe Ruth. :twocents:
     
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  12. bhrangerfan0809

    bhrangerfan0809 Sprinkles are for Spelling Bee Winners™
    Arkansas RazorbacksTexas RangersDallas MavericksDallas CowboysDallas Stars

    Oscar Charleston probably wasn't fast enough to flip the light switch and tuck himself into bed before the room became dark. :twocents:
     
  13. wtx

    wtx you don't want zero problems big fella
    Donor
    Texas LonghornsTexas RangersWichita State Shockers

    Underrated right now - Goldschmidt

    Overrated- Braun or Andrus
     
  14. miles

    miles All I know is my gut says, maybe
    Donor

    The longevity is really impressive but it just seemed he never really had that dominant untouchable feeling about him over the course of a full season like some other guys like Maddux or Pedro.

    Didn't he never win a Cy?
     
  15. Celemo

    Celemo Meatball's Dad
    Donor
    Michigan WolverinesOregon State BeaversDetroit TigersPortland Trail Blazers

    came to post exactly this
     
  16. wtx

    wtx you don't want zero problems big fella
    Donor
    Texas LonghornsTexas RangersWichita State Shockers

    Glavine was overrated as well.

    Maddux and Smoltz >>
     
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  17. Celemo

    Celemo Meatball's Dad
    Donor
    Michigan WolverinesOregon State BeaversDetroit TigersPortland Trail Blazers

    overrated: 99.3% of New York Yankees history
     
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  18. miles

    miles All I know is my gut says, maybe
    Donor

    I hate to say this but I think you can throw Johnny Bench on the overrated list. Probably Ozzie Smith, too.
     
  19. HOOSINSC

    HOOSINSC You're with me leather
    Donor
    Virginia CavaliersSouth Carolina GamecocksWashington Redskins

    i'd put it at 99.4%
     
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  20. lhprop1

    lhprop1 President of the Myron Floren fan club
    Staff Donor

    That's an average of 204 k's per year for 28 years. Think about that for a second.

    The guy pitched longer than most MLB players have been alive and he averaged more ko's per year than most pitchers will ever get in a single year.

    He probably wasn't as dominant as some of the other pitchers in the HOF, but he deserves his spot.
     
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  21. wtx

    wtx you don't want zero problems big fella
    Donor
    Texas LonghornsTexas RangersWichita State Shockers

    Omar Vizquel was overrated
     
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  22. Tobias

    Tobias OJ kept saying they were papayas
    Donor
    North Carolina TarheelsAtlanta BravesCharlotte HornetsNew York GiantsManchester City

    it seems like every week at trivia they ask a question where the answer is goldschmidt but my team is the only one that gets it

    dude is a stud but completely unknown to most casual fans
     
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  23. Tobias

    Tobias OJ kept saying they were papayas
    Donor
    North Carolina TarheelsAtlanta BravesCharlotte HornetsNew York GiantsManchester City

    no one is saying he shouldn't be in the hof

    just that him having such a high percentage of the ballot is indicative of him being overrated
     
  24. bhrangerfan0809

    bhrangerfan0809 Sprinkles are for Spelling Bee Winners™
    Arkansas RazorbacksTexas RangersDallas MavericksDallas CowboysDallas Stars

    Overrated: Hank Aaron, Mike Schmidt

    Underrated: Rogers Hornsby

    This is probably due to my bias toward peak over longevity (the Aaron inclusion). An all-time great, obviously, though I think he's a bit overrated.
     
    enjj likes this.
  25. Arkadin

    Arkadin Doctors orders, go fuck yourself
    Donor

    If everyone agrees he should be in the HOF, shouldn't the percentage be high? That shit is all about how big of a douche baseball writers want to be that day anyways
     
  26. wtx

    wtx you don't want zero problems big fella
    Donor
    Texas LonghornsTexas RangersWichita State Shockers

    Pedro > Nolan
     
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  27. bhrangerfan0809

    bhrangerfan0809 Sprinkles are for Spelling Bee Winners™
    Arkansas RazorbacksTexas RangersDallas MavericksDallas CowboysDallas Stars

    Also, I think Martin Dihigo may have been one of the best two-way players ever.
     
  28. Arkadin

    Arkadin Doctors orders, go fuck yourself
    Donor

    What was wrong with ole hanks peak
     
  29. Tobias

    Tobias OJ kept saying they were papayas
    Donor
    North Carolina TarheelsAtlanta BravesCharlotte HornetsNew York GiantsManchester City

    underrated (as a human being): ty cobb

    his name has been slandered and drug through the mud as some over the top racist asshole but it's just simply not true

    this book came out this year and it's a great read into ty cobb's actual persona. highly recommend it to any basebal fans

    http://www.amazon.com/Ty-Cobb-A-Terrible-Beauty/dp/1451645767
     
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  30. bhrangerfan0809

    bhrangerfan0809 Sprinkles are for Spelling Bee Winners™
    Arkansas RazorbacksTexas RangersDallas MavericksDallas CowboysDallas Stars

    I think Pedro's peak may have been the best ever by a SP. If not the best, top three.
     
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  31. wes tegg

    wes tegg Prestone®
    Staff Donor
    Mississippi RebelsAtlanta BravesDenver BroncosChicago BlackhawksMontreal Impact

    He finished top 5 in voting 6 times, but never won one. He was as effective in the early nineties as the early seventies. But, you're right that he was never that dominant. He did play on some shitty teams, though. Still, I think the strikeout leader and the home run leader are pretty much shoe-ins before any other statistic.
     
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  32. Tobias

    Tobias OJ kept saying they were papayas
    Donor
    North Carolina TarheelsAtlanta BravesCharlotte HornetsNew York GiantsManchester City

    they are such douches and it's absurd that no one is unanimous. but knowing that no one is unanimous, the highest percentage should be someone better if we're using that metric to evaluate their career (which is admittedly flawed)
     
  33. bhrangerfan0809

    bhrangerfan0809 Sprinkles are for Spelling Bee Winners™
    Arkansas RazorbacksTexas RangersDallas MavericksDallas CowboysDallas Stars

    Nothing wrong with it, I just think that of I asked the casual MLB fan how many times they think Aaron won the MVP, they'd probably guess he won it more than once. Hence why I think he's overrated.
     
  34. miles

    miles All I know is my gut says, maybe
    Donor

    Read a bio of his a while back. Was great. Shoeless Joe batted ~.400 two years in a row and couldn't win the damn batting title :laugh:
     
  35. herb.burdette

    herb.burdette Meet me at the corner of 8th and Worthington
    Donor
    Ohio State Buckeyes

    Nolan Ryan was selected to the All Star game just 8 times. He never won a Cy Young, and finished top-3 in the voting just twice.

    If I put a blind set of stats and omitted strikeouts, who can tell me which one of these players is Nolan Ryan, Phil Neikro, or Gaylord Perry?

    Seasons 24 Wins 318 Losses 274 ERA 3.35

    Seasons 27 Wins 324 Losses 292 ERA 3.19

    Seasons 22 Wins 314 Losses 265 ERA 3.11
     
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  36. wtx

    wtx you don't want zero problems big fella
    Donor
    Texas LonghornsTexas RangersWichita State Shockers

    Best pitchers of the steroid era:

    Randy Johnson
    Pedro
    Clemens
    Maddux

    All of them have a case to be in the top 10-15 of all time
     
  37. Tobias

    Tobias OJ kept saying they were papayas
    Donor
    North Carolina TarheelsAtlanta BravesCharlotte HornetsNew York GiantsManchester City

    the previous bio's used questionable material and seemingly created/exaggerate anecdotes. cobb was preparing to sue one of them for defamation of character before he died
     
  38. lhprop1

    lhprop1 President of the Myron Floren fan club
    Staff Donor

    His high percentage of votes doesn't mean he's overrated. It just means that a lot (almost all) of the writers agreed that he should be in the HOF. George Brett was in the same year as Ryan and got 98.19% of the vote. That doesn't make him overrated.

    Tom Seaver was elected into the HOF with a higher percentage of than Ryan. The % doesn't mean shit.
     
    #38 lhprop1, Aug 3, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2015
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  39. Celemo

    Celemo Meatball's Dad
    Donor
    Michigan WolverinesOregon State BeaversDetroit TigersPortland Trail Blazers

    Hank Aaron is widely considered one of the top 5 greatest right handed hitters of all time, I fail to see how he is overrated
     
  40. wtx

    wtx you don't want zero problems big fella
    Donor
    Texas LonghornsTexas RangersWichita State Shockers

    Mattingly was one overrated fuck during his time
     
  41. herb.burdette

    herb.burdette Meet me at the corner of 8th and Worthington
    Donor
    Ohio State Buckeyes

    Tony Gywnn and Ted Williams are the only players in the top-20 all time for batting average who played the majority of their careers after WWII.

    Williams is acknowledged as one of the greatest hitters to have ever played.

    Gywnn batted is relatively obscurity. In 20 seasons, the only time Gywnn failed to hit .300 was his rookie year at .289.
     
  42. miles

    miles All I know is my gut says, maybe
    Donor

    Yeah, the one I read didn't paint him as such.
     
  43. KJROD20

    KJROD20 the ends will justify the means.
    Florida GatorsBoston Red SoxBoston CelticsNew York Rangers

    Also, I may be off, but I feel like Bill Mazeroski is in the HOF solely forthe World Series winning HR.
     
  44. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideNew York YankeesJacksonville Jaguars

    A lot of really shitty opinions being posted itt.
     
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  45. miles

    miles All I know is my gut says, maybe
    Donor

    The Lynn Swann of baseball if you will
     
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  46. bhrangerfan0809

    bhrangerfan0809 Sprinkles are for Spelling Bee Winners™
    Arkansas RazorbacksTexas RangersDallas MavericksDallas CowboysDallas Stars

    Post yours!
     
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  47. miles

    miles All I know is my gut says, maybe
    Donor

    Sandy Koufax is such an interesting case study for me.

    You wonder how many more years he could have played had he not pitched in an era where guys threw until their arms fell off. >300 innings in 3/4 years. Wow.
     
  48. StinkusP1nkus

    StinkusP1nkus Ball State #1
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Michigan WolverinesBall State CardinalsChicago CubsLos Angeles LakersChicago Bears

    Random guy...Graig Nettles. 390 home runs mostly just before the steroids era, shitty batting average, but elite defense at 3B

    edit: found this

     
  49. wes tegg

    wes tegg Prestone®
    Staff Donor
    Mississippi RebelsAtlanta BravesDenver BroncosChicago BlackhawksMontreal Impact

    Bolded is wrong. 1973 (2nd), 1974 (3rd) and 1977 (3rd). And "omitting strikeouts" is pretty egregious when he's the career record holder by close to 20% and led the league 11 times.
     
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  50. herb.burdette

    herb.burdette Meet me at the corner of 8th and Worthington
    Donor
    Ohio State Buckeyes

    I missed the 1977, but point remains, he finished top-3 in just three of his twenty-eight seasons.

    I absolutely believe he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, and when he was on, the no hitters speak for themselves, but he is no where near the pitcher that some remember him in hindsight.

    I'm old enough to remember Ryan playing with the Astros in the 1980's. Everyone acknowledged that he was really good, but it was only after Pete Rose broke the all time hits record that folks started looking around to note that Ryan had so many strikeouts.