Detroit Red Wings: Priority Waste - Our Sponsor and Our Defense Core

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by DeToxRox, Jan 24, 2016.

  1. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    PK ace, not much else

     
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  2. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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    Like Motte but this is the stuff that starts making it hard for kids to make the team, even at reduced salary.
     
  3. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    On the flip side I don't mind having established 4th line guys so the young guys aren't brought up, stuck on that line and then people wonder why they don't produce. Although currently it only appears there is a spot for one of Kasper or Berggren (until Fabbri gets hurt).
     
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  4. The Banks

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    Berggren is more than ready for a middle six role. Kasper can play top minutes in GR to start.
     
  5. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    Yea and in reality with Fabbri, Kasper is likely getting 30+ games next year. Still feel they need a 2nd line winger, but at this point adding one of those could push Berggren out. And I'd like to give him an extended look.
     
  6. DayDomination

    DayDomination Down to clown at Truffoni's
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    Ditch Fabbri and Copp
     
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  7. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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    I just don’t know that anyone should count on Berggren playing in the middle six. He is clearly not someone Lalonde trusts as his short leash at the end of last season showed.
     
  8. The Banks

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    If Lalonde doesn’t trust him defensively then it makes more sense to have him on the third line than the shutdown fourth line.
     
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  9. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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    I don’t think he trusts him in general. For all the issues we had last season, he only got 12 games for a reason.
     
  10. Manny

    Manny I love Lip

    Cat-Larkin-Kane
    Raymond-Compher-???
    Ras-Copp-Fischer
    Fabbri-Veleno-Motte

    (Berggren, Mazur, Danielson, Kasper)

    Chiarot-Seider
    Edvinsson-???
    Gustafsson-???

    (RD Petry, LD/RD Maata, RD Holl, LD Johansson, LD Lagesson


    Kane: re-signed 1 yr

    Perron: OTT 2x4

    Fischer: re-signed 1 yr 1.125m

    Sprong: TBD (gone imo)

    Ghost: 3x3.2M CAR

    Reimer: TBD (definitely gone)

    We have two really good 4th lines! And 2/3 of a 3rd line plus Raymond as our 2nd unless we find a 2nd line winger. Meh.
     
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  11. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Tork is Ass
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    Team is shaping up to suck next year. Disappointing off season from Yzerman. Make the playoffs next year (in Year 7) or get the fuck out
     
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  12. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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    Fabbri will probably start on the third line but that’s about right.
     
  13. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    Everyone hated Perron and Gost on here and wanted to give some of the younger guys a shot. Full seasons of Kane and Edvinsson and brought in a couple more sound defensive players. Raymond took a step forward at the end of the season too. Berggren or Kasper or Danielson also look to be given a prime chance to make middle 6.

    Look, before I get accused of being too much of a homer, on paper now this team overall is not improved. But I don't buy that we are going to suck now all of a sudden. I'm not sure we lost much from last year and may improve without some of them. But their definitely still are moves that need to be made and I'd be disappointed if this is the team going into camp
     
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  14. The Banks

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    He trusted him for 67 games the year before. Was good enough to put up the 6th highest P/60 on the team.
     
  15. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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    And most of that production was the front half of the season. I don’t think it helps Berggren’s argument that he trailed off and then play a fifth of the games year over year.
     
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  16. DayDomination

    DayDomination Down to clown at Truffoni's
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    Kane is back
    Let him continue to cook Razor and now Mazur and Berggren
     
  17. BleedinGreen

    BleedinGreen Detroit, Michigan State, and Celery
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    Exactly this. The team is probably, at best, a wash from last year but there weren’t clear upgrade paths without massive FA overpays or stupid trades. It sucks but this is the smarter play over handing out dumb contracts to guys that block younger players.

    Fingers crossed the kids take a step forward and reevaluate next offseason,
     
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  18. Manny

    Manny I love Lip

    They played that 3rd line together, and they were really good at points before Ras got hurt. But yeah that bottom six could see shuffling for sure.
     
  19. Manny

    Manny I love Lip

    Steve is soft punting this season, leaving room for a couple PDO bender stretches to sneak into playoffs. This isn't a good team and he knows it, but there arent many avenues to improve the team without mortgaging elements of the future. He's waiting til the cap table is more manageable next year and can get out from his mistakes imo.
     
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  20. The Banks

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    17 in the first half of his season, 11 the second. Looks like a pretty good correlation to his zone starts. Weird that Lalonde doesn’t trust him defensively but has a 44/56 split between offensive/defensive zone starts.
     
  21. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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    Our offense last year was a lot of smoke and mirrors when you actually break down our analytics. I do think a year of Raymond being elite will mitigate some of that, as will a year of Kane. So to that end, I think the offense improves.

    I don’t see our defense as currently constructed (and even if we add Trouba) being anything more than a bottom third unit. There is potential for better if Edvinsson plays an entire season at Seider rookie season levels but that doesn’t seem likely.

    I don’t think our goaltending has much potential to be great but Talbot raises the floor a bit.

    All that’s to say the offseason has been fine, even if the Walman trade gets worse every day.

    The focus now should really be getting Raymond to sign for eight years. If we bridge him we are going to really regret what that second contract looks like. Beyond that, kids must have a path to make the team. If Danielson or Kasper aren’t in the top nine next season that’s a failure because you have to get these guys real reps.
     
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  22. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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    IMG_4328.jpeg

    Post draft prospect rankings. A lot of changes at the bottom of the list.

    Some overarching thoughts:

    - We have a lot of guys that will be competent top nine players. I just don’t think we have anyone in the system that has elite production potential which does matter (see Carolina). Still, the system is deep.

    - This was a good draft to add some skill into the system with guys like Plante and Becher. We need more of that going forward.

    - There are no excuses next summer to not move some of these guys (and picks) for legitimate NHL talent.
     
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  23. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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    Current best guess at our depth chart. I am over the 23 man limit on purpose to show some of the things that need to be addressed moving forward.

    - I think Kasper and Mazur are making the team out of Camp, even with limited space. It’s a big leap of faith on my part but the FO has been far too vocal about those guys and they have skill sets we don’t have elsewhere on the roster.

    - That fourth line feels like a lock to start together which means it’ll be tough for Fabbri and Berggren to make the top nine if Kasper and Mazur make the team.

    - Defense is a mess. Chiarot and Seider were back together to end last year and barring a surprise move it appears that’s how we will start next season. Edvinsson and Petry spent time together and likely end up as partners. Maata was with Ghost most of last year and should end up in the same role with Guatafsson next season. Johansson should start the season as the 7th D. Holl has gotta’ go.

    - I am not sure that Lyon beats out Husso if Husso is healthy, namely because Lyon has value in a trade. I think Talbot is the guy. I just don’t see how we can carry three goalies again unless Husso ends up on LTIR.

    As far as moves we can make before the season starts, I’ll guess the following:

    - We trade for another RD. We didn’t get this far down the road on Trouba to end our pursuit entirely. Holl or Husso ideally are a part of that deal with additional assets going back.

    - If we can’t move Holl or Husso in a trade, we take Berggren or Veleno to arbitration to get a second buyout window so we can buy one them out to clear out space.
     
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  24. The Banks

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    Think Augustine will be ready for G2 spot in GR in 2025.
     
  25. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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    Entirely possible. He is also a great trade chip.
     
  26. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ not affiliated with Taylor Swift
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    Does going to arbitration open up a buyout window for Holl?
     
  27. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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    Yes.
     
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  28. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    Is Augustine in that lower tier because he's so young in goalie years and there's no point in trying to project him as more until he's further along? Or does he just not have much of a ceiling as a prospect?
     
  29. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Tork is Ass
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    it's because he plays for the Spartans. Vinegar strokes has him as #4 prospect in red wings system
     
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  30. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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    His ceiling is lower than Cossa’s by a decent amount mainly due to his size. It’s not a dealbreaker for a goalie to be under 6’3” but the chances of being an every day NHL goalie are much smaller.
     
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  31. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ not affiliated with Taylor Swift
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    I think Augustine is a high floor, low ceiling guy with a 1B projection. He certainly could be better than that, but that’s the scouting report.
     
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  32. The Banks

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    Different playing styles but same height, I can see Augustine having a Pete Mrazek type career stat-wise.
     
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  33. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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  34. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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  35. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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    Will pair well with Raymond. We gotta move some of these guys though.
     
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  36. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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    honestly the number Tarasenko gets is the most intriguing thing left this offseason
     
  37. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    Think we still have a trade coming for a RD that may include someone like Berggren. We will see, but another reasonable contract for a Perron upgrade
     
  38. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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    Bultman mentioned Tarasenko and Kane playing together. It could work really well but Dylan might retire halfway through the season after literally playing all the defense for those two.
     
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  39. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    Put those two with Copp or Compher.

    36 year old Perron who clearly lost a step this year just got 2×4, 32 year old tarasenko at 2x4.75 seems like a great deal.
     
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  40. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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    So we now are at a place where any trade we might make must come with an equal amount of dollars going out.
     
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  41. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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    Or we do that
     
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  42. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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    Gage Alexander is a goalie because of course (I imagine this was just a contract to take back to help Anaheim out — this guys maybe an ECHL backup)
     
  43. The Banks

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    So Detroit’s lines look like:

    DeBrincat - Larkin - Kane
    Raymond - Compher - Tarasenko
    Rasmussen - Copp - Berggren
    Motte - Veleno - Fischer

    Essentially switched out 36 year old Perron for 32 year old Tarasenko at about the same hit and term
     
  44. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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    So the current situation is we have 20 mil in space, and we can assume our four RFA will come in around 16-18 mil. Trouba at 25% retained with Holl going back would basically make all the pieces fit without much more cap gymnastics.
     
  45. DayDomination

    DayDomination Down to clown at Truffoni's
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    Now trade Copp !
     
  46. The Banks

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    20M is before calling up Berggren Ed and AlJo, no?
     
  47. DayDomination

    DayDomination Down to clown at Truffoni's
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    Looking forward to the emergency wwp tomorrow
     
  48. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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    Good call on the latter two. I did include Berggren. Johansson and Edvinsson add another 1.6
     
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  49. DayDomination

    DayDomination Down to clown at Truffoni's
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    Time to trade for Marner !
     
  50. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    Feel like trouba deal is dead and we after Ekblad now. But who knows, we move so silently. Hell I didn't even see us linked with tarasenko before team announced it. Pretty sure it was a reported Montreal/NYR battle 2 hours ago