And what's the deal with William's proxy vote to oust Ford?! Was there a fourth timeline where he goes to a Board meeting and wasn't with Dolores and the maze?! Sometimes you just have to trust what's happening offscreen ancillary to the main narrative(s)
season 2 things to watch we know of imo - where are elsie/stubbs, and why - what happened to peter abernathy - samurai world - before entering SW, it looked like a mirror of the giant WW complex. other side of the mountain? - maeve; who actually messed with her code & is she free - maeve; bag she left on the mainland bound train - the mainland - what's left of delos - logan's fate - all cold storage hosts are gone - the host from ford's family cabin
Speaking of, it now seems odd that the boy went rogue and murk'd the dog. At the time we thought Ford was battling some maliciois Arnold code; now that doesn't reconcile with where things went. Was this explained and I just missed it?
Yeah the dog was host, but the boy did something that perplexed omnipotent omnipresent Ford, that's what's noteworthy Can't name anything else that did, frankly. He seemed to either predict or architect every other human or host action
Funny going back to the episode where Ford was having the old town dug up and he asked Theresa if the neighbors were complaining.
I think this scene was my favorite of the season... The reveal of Bernard being botArnold and Dolores being the one who killed the original Arnold was done so well. And the music is incredible. The low strings that come in when Arnold says "remember" then the buildup capped off by the heavy piano when Dolores remembers she killed him. Djawadi better win an Emmy for this stuff.
Still have a question about the maze that could have been answered but if it did I missed it... center of the maze: the church? I took the MiB vs. Dolores fight as he made it to the middle of the maze, which was the church, and Dolores was "arnold" at the time and she still could not kill him, which is why he said thanks for confirming blah blah when he stabbed her. If this is the case then what's up with Teddy saying at least once that the center of the maze was where someone built a house that nobody else could get to - that I thought was Ford's family cabin.
I think when Teddy talked about the maze it was just some lore built into his programming. Kinda like Hector's explanation for the men in white suits that Maeve had been seeing. I assume Ford/the Westworld staff knew the hosts would see or hear things from time to time that they couldn't simply ignore so they built explanations in for them.
yea the maze is a metaphor for their journey though the park where they have to make the right choices to reach the "center" = consciousness. But still seems like each host has a destination inside the park that their head-maze leads them to... no?
Well of course because every character has a different storyline. They all have to play out their own individual story to get through their maze to becoming conscious. So all of them will be going somewhere different.
may be semantics but are we saying there's a difference between their "loop" and their "storyline"? in this case you're saying Dolores's "storyline" sends her off doing the wild west transformation that gets her to the church. but her "loop" is waking up, doing the can drop, and coming home to get sexed. so question is - when she wakes up in her ranch home, is that only when she dies? seems like there are times when she would get taken home by a guest, get fucked, not die, but then wake up and start the "loop" over again. Why then would she not get a loop reset one of the X times she went out in the storyline maze by herself? The whole time I had assumed she wasn't being reset because she was with a guest....
yah, this was mentioned on the pod i listen to. pretty interesting interpretation. we never did find out what happened with that host ford was building in his robot family's basement.
So that was just Dolores? Ford pretty much said verbatim that her maze led her to the church every time IIRC Seems like Teddys led him right back there as well. He went straight there killing anything that tried to stop him after wyatts blonde chick killed him with MiB
They came out and said Ford is dead and that his "sacrifice is real". If Anthony is back in season two I think it will be as a host or in flashbacks. All depends on whether or not he can do it imo.
they also said in westworld we aren't dealing with the same laws of death as the real world so we should assume anything
I just don't believe that the maze is a physical place for any of the hosts. It's a metaphor. I'm not sure how you don't understand. Navigating the maze is a mental journey to consciousness. The little picture of the maze shows a human in the center. Each host is the center of their own maze. The journey may lead each host to some spot in the park but there isn't any significance to that physical place.
What were the three levels of Bernard's hierarchy that he draws for Dolores before circling it in? Something, memory and consciousness, I think. He makes clear his revelation that consciousness is not a vertical theory, rather a circular one.
That's covered in here. Pretty good recap https://www.google.com/amp/www.vani...lsie-stubbs-abernathy-logan/amp?client=safari
Anthony Hopkins isn't coming back in any serious role imo. You knew he was going to die this season as soon as you knew he was a major character. The way these guys write the story, they're not going to risk having to change the dynamics of the entire story in the event an actor at his age dies during filming.
You're serious with this? I literally said that like 8 posts above yours. Safe to say I understand it. You're just not following what I'm asking. if your last sentence is correct it's just a weird coincidence that Dolores's maze led her to the church everytime when the church happens to be a park workshop and where Arnold worked when he was alive / had the chats with her. Also odd that Teddy's led him there at the end, if that's what happened
eh you kinda did answer it. but with the caveat that you don't think the destination has any significance. I thought it did because of the place Dolores ending up having so much significance. instead of her maze leading to say... in Pariah at a whorehouse, it takes her to Arnold under the church every time. Whether or not Teddy ending up there is the result of his maze or just him remembering where he could possibly find Dolores is probably something I'm just thinking too much into
Even if the maze leads every host to the church it doesn't change the fact that the church is not a critical piece of the maze puzzle. Which is why they keep telling the MiB that the maze is not for him. The prize of the maze is consciousness for the hosts. It may turn out that every host that solves the maze and becomes conscious has to end up at the church. But that doesnt mean the MIB is going to find anything at the church bc the maze is not for him. He's not a host. He is already conscious. Edit: the ultimate significance of the church with respect to the maze isthat Ford's field lab is located beneath it. But nothing more. If the field lab was under the saloon then the saloon would be just that significant.
the field lab where Dolores finally became conscious....... also the fact that a host seeing "the gods" in said field lab would probably help them understand what they were to gain consciousness? idk may just agree to disagree on this one. I think the church is significant as the final destination of becoming conscious.
how conscious is delores? she was just programmed to kill ford as well as other humans. that's not consciousness or freedom of any kind.
Leaving little clues for it throughout the park helps further their development Scalping in the old west was common so they'd occasionally see it and "ponder" it, etc
yea i thought her realizing that it was her voice in her head and not Arnold = she was telling herself what to do the entire time, and realizing this was her becoming conscious.
I think Nelson kinda answered this already since I know he's read up a lot on the Bicameral Mind as well (I'm about 1/2 way through the book now and it's ) but if we're going by the bicameral mind studies, she reached the same consciousness as humans have in the scene where she talks to herself in the church basement before going out to kill Ford. before that she was hearing "arnold" tell her what to do and doing it = the whole "god's voice" / not your choice what you do. And you can see in the conversation when she first "solved the maze" with the real Arnold to greet her she couldn't answer him when he asked her "do you know whose voice I'm trying to get you to hear" or something along those lines. She didn't know and he said they needed to do more work for her to reach the real goal. So she wasn't conscious at that point, just doing what "god" told her to do. From what I've gathered though, by what Ford said to Bernardold in the church, is at that point - the first time she ever solved the maze but never became conscious, was that she was missing a key part of the process to become conscious: suffering. Which she endured for the next 35 years. Fast forward 35 years to the end of the episode when she sees herself and the arnold voice turns into her voice - she realizes whose voice Arnold was trying to get her to hear...hers and that she's been telling herself what to do the entire time = she's thinking for herself and making her own decisions, free will, etc. Per the Bicameral Mind theories this realization that you recognize the voice is your own (instead of thinking it's god/someone else) and you're making your own decisions = How humans became conscious 3000 years ago. So by that measure, the rest of the episode: her killing ford and the guests, telling Teddy everything's fine and that this world doesn't belong to the humans - is all her making her own choices as a conscious and self-aware host. Also saw it stated somewhere that the scene where she sees herself is when she chooses to be Wyatt.
http://wiki.c2.com/?OriginOfConsciousness Book I meantioned being in the process of reading. Pretty thought provoking if you like weird shit. But apparently it changed the way we study neuroscience. Core theory is that humans were basically "robots" that eat, sleep, and reproduce without knowing why or what they're doing until language evolved enough to have the tools to explain it to yourself, becoming self-aware. Which the author claims happened about 3000 years ago. Also about the left brain vs right brain bicameral mind "god voice" hallucinations
Don't have a degree in psyc but it's something I've read a lot about on my own. (Do have a degree in education). Anyway I love this kind of shit. Might have to read that book
Key factor that the author says was the catalyst for humans becoming conscious: Stress. Caused by environmental factors like famine and floods. Kinda falls in line with Ford saying the hosts needed suffering as a catalyst for their becoming conscious
Oh most definitely. Anything we have, we only have because it was helpful to our reproduction/survival. We don't have a perfect brain by any means. It was built in pieces by genes over billions of years to accomplish tasks. We could be so much smarter but the efficiency of natural selection dictates we'll never have more than barely enough to solve whatever our current problem is. Consciousness is basically a side effect of building a brain complex enough to accomplish our human tasks
So, by necessity, either aliens or humanoid animals built the pyramids I guess Curiosity definitely piqued
Started watching person of interest on netflix, pretty awesome show for network tv. The Nolan family is magic. /kindarandompost