Malazan Book of the Fallen (Malazan Universe)

Discussion in 'TMB Book Club' started by The Blackfish, Apr 15, 2015.

  1. The Blackfish

    The Blackfish The Fish in Black
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideIndianapolis Colts

    So I've recently decided to jump headfirst into Erikson and Esselmont's universe. I had heard that he really just throws you into the middle of the universe and goes without giving you any explanation and damn that is true. I found a reading guide to make sure I wasn't missing anything. I'm through Gardens of the Moon and am now reading Deadhouse Gates. Halfway through DG and I've decided I like the universe enough to read all of it. I found a site that discussed multiple orders in which to read all of the books and it seems like most agreed on this one so its what I'm going with.

    Anyone else read? Agree with the reading order? Feel free to post general discussion in here as well, just please spoiler with book and chapter first.
     
  2. The Blackfish

    The Blackfish The Fish in Black
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideIndianapolis Colts

    Really love some of his character names. Anomander Rake, Calladan Brood and Whiskeyjack are probably my favorite names of the ones that have been introduced so far.
     
  3. RonBurgundy

    RonBurgundy Well-Known Member

    25 books? :aintnobodygottimeforthat:

    I do have the first 10 in my queue to read I just haven't gotten to them yet.
     
    Fusiontegra and IV like this.
  4. The Blackfish

    The Blackfish The Fish in Black
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideIndianapolis Colts

    Yeah the Malazan Book of the Fallen is just 10 books and is the main series. The rest are additional stories that take place in the universe, most very short.
     
  5. lazy bum

    lazy bum active consumer
    Donor TMB OG

    this is probably my favorite series ever. Very dense and long, though. I'd probably have difficulty getting all the story beats and characters right if asked to explain the behemoth. I need to re-read it but it's such a daunting task.

    Erickson's main series (the 10 main ones) are where the magic is. Esslemont isn't in the same league and I've actually stopped keeping up with his books.

    Erickson is currently writing a prequel set of 3 that deal with the Tiste and Mother Dark/Father Light. One book is out, the second is supposed to be out this fall. There are characters in it that directly appear in the main series (like Anomander Rake) and others who some believe are characters from the main series going by different names.
     
    The Blackfish likes this.
  6. Cza

    Cza Buns Glazing
    Donor TMB OG

    I'm on midnight tides, but lost my momentum about a year ago. Plan on finishing up, but might have to start from the beginning.
     
    RonBurgundy likes this.
  7. The Blackfish

    The Blackfish The Fish in Black
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideIndianapolis Colts

    lazy bum Quick Question. Keep in mind I'm 75% through Deadhouse Gates so I've only read the first book and 3/4 of the 2nd so please don't spoil anything.

    My question is about Soletaken and D'ivers and ascendancy. All the Soletaken and D'ivers are currently going down the path of hands in hopes that one will ascend and then can control an army of Soletaken and D'ivers as the only ascendant one. Does that mean that there are currently no ascended soletaken? Is Anomander Rake not an ascendant? I thought he was knight of high house dark? Just confused me
     
    RonBurgundy likes this.
  8. lazy bum

    lazy bum active consumer
    Donor TMB OG

    some general series spoilers but nothing deep.

    it's a confusing thing throughout, or at least it was for me. I get the impression it has to do with when one became soletaken. Anomander's story isn't finished on that, he may have become ascendant before he became soletaken. This will hopefully become clearer at least pertaining to him during the ongoing prequel trilogy.
     
    RonBurgundy likes this.
  9. The Blackfish

    The Blackfish The Fish in Black
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideIndianapolis Colts

    When Heboric, Kulp and Felisin are going through the lost buried city Felisin suggests they let themselves be bitten and become shapeshifters and either Heboric or Kulp tells her that is a myth and that you're born a shape shifter. Is a shape shifter different from soletaken or is this more just confusing stuff that doesn't quite make sense?
     
    RonBurgundy likes this.
  10. lazy bum

    lazy bum active consumer
    Donor TMB OG

    more confusing stuff that I don't remember ever being clarified.

    I'm going to reread the series this summer. Maybe I'll pick up on some of this better the second time through.
     
    RonBurgundy and The Blackfish like this.
  11. RegimentML

    RegimentML Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Oklahoma City ThunderOklahoma SoonersUnited States Men's National Soccer Team

    I'm starting these when I finish Wheel of Time. So I'll check this thread out next year.
     
    RonBurgundy likes this.
  12. The Blackfish

    The Blackfish The Fish in Black
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideIndianapolis Colts

    How far into WoT are you? Did we lose the WoT thread in the crash?
     
  13. RegimentML

    RegimentML Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Oklahoma City ThunderOklahoma SoonersUnited States Men's National Soccer Team

    I'm at the start of book 6. Haven't had much time the last couple months to read but here in a couple of weeks I'll be able to start it back up.

    Also, it does look like we lost the WoT thread.
     
    #13 RegimentML, Apr 21, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2015
  14. The Blackfish

    The Blackfish The Fish in Black
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideIndianapolis Colts

    Almost finished with Deadhouse Gates. Re: Chain of Dogs

    Holy fuck that was one of the most brutal story lines I have ever read. Coltaine, List, Bult, Lull all dying at the end within site of Aren's Walls. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
     
    RonBurgundy and lazy bum like this.
  15. Gin Buckets

    Gin Buckets Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Virginia Tech HokiesIndiana HoosiersAtlanta BravesAtlanta HawksAtlanta Falcons

    Reading Charm School now, but will either listen to this one or Brothers Karamzov next.... Both are really daunting, so I'm slightly :ohnoes:

    I have been moving the last week, and in a stroke of good fortune I discovered the Dresden Files book 1 on sale for $4.95 on audible.com. Probably some of the best books ever to go through if you have hours and hours of mindless work in front of you.
     
    RonBurgundy and The Blackfish like this.
  16. The Blackfish

    The Blackfish The Fish in Black
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideIndianapolis Colts

    If you start Gardens of the Moon you will inevitably have questions, just come in here and ask and we'll try to give you spoiler free answers (others will probably be more helpful than me since I've only read the first two). It's daunting, but totally worth it. I'm about to give Deadhouse Gates a 5* on Goodreads.
     
    RonBurgundy and Gin Buckets like this.
  17. Doug Fisher

    Doug Fisher i was gettin changed
    Donor

    Reading memories of ice right now, is it a better idea to read all 25? Meaning am I going to miss out on important stuff?
     
    RonBurgundy likes this.
  18. The Blackfish

    The Blackfish The Fish in Black
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideIndianapolis Colts

    I have no idea. I'm doing all 25 but I decided I wanted to read everything. No idea how much important things are outside of the main 10 books
     
  19. The Blackfish

    The Blackfish The Fish in Black
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideIndianapolis Colts

    Here is the site I used when deciding on that reading order

    http://malazan.wikia.com/wiki/Suggested_reading_order

    [​IMG]
     
  20. lazy bum

    lazy bum active consumer
    Donor TMB OG

    I've read the 10 main series in the order they were released, Night of Knives (I do recommend reading that one for good background on things that set up major players in the main series), Return of the Crimson Guard, and stopped at Stonewielder. I've also read Forge of Darkness in the new prequel series and it's on par from a quality standpoint with the main series as opposed to these other side stories by Esslemont.

    I'm interested in Assail for the tie ins I would think it would have with the main series, but have read about some disappointment in it, so I haven't picked it up.

    I read good things about the Bauchelain and Korbal Broach books but haven't gotten to them yet, either. I did enjoy their appearances in the main sequence and Erickson wrote those himself, so I imagine they're good.
     
  21. Larry Sura

    Larry Sura Tuyuq. Fratzy
    Donor TMB OG
    Auburn TigersAtlanta HawksAtlanta FalconsUSA Rugby

    I finished he first book at the end of last year and I haven't purchased the 2nd one yet. It was about half way through the book before I fully grasped what was going on and what Warren's were and other shit. Did anyone else feel lost for a while? I'll definitely pick up the series again soon after I clear some other books I've had for too long. Anomander Rake is a boss.
     
    RonBurgundy likes this.
  22. The Blackfish

    The Blackfish The Fish in Black
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideIndianapolis Colts

    Yes I think everyone feels that way. I liked the 2nd book way more than the first and from what I've read the 3rd is better than the first two. In the reading order above I'm reading (chronologically) the first three Bauchelain and Korbal Broach short stories. They're pretty entertaining dark comedies
     
    RonBurgundy likes this.
  23. Larry Sura

    Larry Sura Tuyuq. Fratzy
    Donor TMB OG
    Auburn TigersAtlanta HawksAtlanta FalconsUSA Rugby

    As long as it wasn't just me. My plan is to read the wiki page for the first book to catch up and confirm or change the beliefs I took from it, and then get the second one.
     
  24. The Blackfish

    The Blackfish The Fish in Black
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideIndianapolis Colts

    I read chapter summaries on Tor.com's Malazan reread of the fallen to make sure I wasn't missing anything when I was confused
     
    Larry Sura likes this.
  25. lazy bum

    lazy bum active consumer
    Donor TMB OG

    shit, I was still confused on tons of stuff after I finished the whole series. You're in for some big pace/setting changes in the middle of the series, then it all comes back together again in the last third of it, but remembering all the non-main characters, which side(s) they were on, what all the warren names matched up with, and who was doing what could get hairy.

    I'm about done with The Forge of Darkness for the 2nd time right now and I'm following it a lot better this time. After that, I'll start Gardens of the Moon again and read the mainline series again this summer. Hoping it's clearer this time.

    Despite all that, the writing and storytelling is so good I never got that frustrated with keeping some things straight. Having wikis out there helps a ton, I'm sure...they weren't around that much when I was going through the series.
     
    RonBurgundy and The Blackfish like this.
  26. The Blackfish

    The Blackfish The Fish in Black
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideIndianapolis Colts

    Just finished The Wurms of Blearmouth, my favorite of the 3 Bauchelain and Korbal Broach stories I've read so far. Now starting Memories of Ice. Erikson is a really great writer.

    I've heard MoI is even better than DG, so my expectations are pretty high. Can't wait to see Whiskeyjack, Anomander Rake and Caladan Brood again.
     
    RonBurgundy and lazy bum like this.
  27. Larry Sura

    Larry Sura Tuyuq. Fratzy
    Donor TMB OG
    Auburn TigersAtlanta HawksAtlanta FalconsUSA Rugby

    that was my thought process for when i finished; recap everything before starting again.
     
    RonBurgundy likes this.
  28. Doug Fisher

    Doug Fisher i was gettin changed
    Donor

    My problem with wikis is spoilers. I was in the middle of the first book and looked a few things up and learned a few things i didn't want to know yet. If you do check out the wiki be aware you might run into some spoilers.
     
    RonBurgundy likes this.
  29. lazy bum

    lazy bum active consumer
    Donor TMB OG

    finished my first re-read of Gardens of the Moon and I enjoyed it so much more knowing who everyone was, what their histories and futures held, and how the world works (geography/governments/armies/gods/warrens). I still like how he throws you into the world without wasting time explaining/setting everything up, but it was a more enjoyable read knowing all the connections.
     
    RonBurgundy likes this.
  30. Doug Fisher

    Doug Fisher i was gettin changed
    Donor

    In the wiki reading order it says that a major spoiler is revealed in Deadhouse gates and night of knives. Does anyone know what this spoiler is? Lots of things are revealed but i'm curious what the "major" one was. Obviously answer in a spoiler box.
     
  31. The Blackfish

    The Blackfish The Fish in Black
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideIndianapolis Colts

    I need some sort of guide as to the power of people and what makes some ascendants more powerful than others. Like how powerful is Shadowthrone in relation to Rake or how powerful is The Crippled God compared to K'rul? This whole God / Ascendant thing is still confusing to me.
     
    RonBurgundy likes this.
  32. The Blackfish

    The Blackfish The Fish in Black
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideIndianapolis Colts

    50% Through Memories of Ice

    Kruppe just pissed of Caladan Brood who then sought to destroy Kruppe with his warhammer. He created a fucking mountain range with his warhammer yet did nothing to Kruppe. Love Kruppe, can't wait to find out more about him.
     
    lazy bum likes this.
  33. lazy bum

    lazy bum active consumer
    Donor TMB OG

    my rough understanding of it has to do with being ascended vs being ascended to actual godhood. Shadowthrone is more powerful than Rake because he sits on that throne of Shadow and is the god of that realm now, whereas Rake is the Knight of Darkness or whatever. The better comparison there is Shadowthrone vs Mother Dark and Cotillion vs Rake.

    You're going to be getting to some of the hierarchy of the Knight of/Sword of stuff later on.

    The gods have different levels of power based on how long they've been around or how long their hold has been around and how many worshippers they have. Sometimes it just seems like some are more powerful because that's what Erikson wanted.
     
    RonBurgundy and The Blackfish like this.
  34. The Blackfish

    The Blackfish The Fish in Black
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideIndianapolis Colts

    :heythere:
     
  35. Doug Fisher

    Doug Fisher i was gettin changed
    Donor

    Pretty sure Rake is as powerful as shadowthrone.

    He totally punks shadow throne in book one. In the desert he kills two hounds of shadow, then forces him to release Sorry.
     
    RonBurgundy likes this.
  36. lazy bum

    lazy bum active consumer
    Donor TMB OG

    In a physical battle, probably so. But in the overall hierarchy, probably not so much. Rake is certainly strong enough to not have to worry about treading lightly. Dude has been around a long time. He was a badass before he ever ascended.
     
  37. Jax Teller

    Jax Teller Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Alabama Crimson TideAtlanta BravesTennessee Titans

    Just starting the first book. Is that list in the OP the most agreed upon order of reading?
     
    RonBurgundy likes this.
  38. lazy bum

    lazy bum active consumer
    Donor TMB OG

    it is, but it's a long road to the finish. The main series is just 10 books long.

    that list is essentially in chronological order (not entirely because some books jump back in time for a bit before returning to "present") except for the last 3 which are set very far in the past.
     
  39. The Blackfish

    The Blackfish The Fish in Black
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideIndianapolis Colts

    Yes but like others have said it is every book that is set in that universe. I would at least read everything written by Erikson himself, I was very happy I read the three Bauchelain and Korbal Broach short stories before reading Memories of Ice. I haven't gotten to a novel written by Esslemont yet. I'll read the first one I come to and then decide if I'm going to read all of his.
     
    lazy bum likes this.
  40. lazy bum

    lazy bum active consumer
    Donor TMB OG

    I still need to read the Bauchelain and Korbal Broach books. I'm knee deep in Deadhouse Gates right now, though.
     
  41. The Blackfish

    The Blackfish The Fish in Black
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideIndianapolis Colts

    98% done with Memories of Ice

    GOD FUCKING DAMN IT. FUCK YOU KALLOR FUCK YOU

    Knew it was coming, stubborn bastard and his bum fucking leg, they heavily foreshadowed it but it still hurt. Fuck. Double fuck.

    RIP Whiskeyjack
     
    RonBurgundy and lazy bum like this.
  42. Neyland

    Neyland Well-Known Member

    I ordered the first one last night. starting it tomorrow probably.
     
    RonBurgundy and The Blackfish like this.
  43. The Blackfish

    The Blackfish The Fish in Black
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideIndianapolis Colts

    First book is tough, but totally worth it. I'm 25% through the fourth book now and completely hooked. When you're inevitably lost and discouraged reading the first book, come in here and we'll help you understand what you need to.
     
    Neyland likes this.
  44. The Blackfish

    The Blackfish The Fish in Black
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideIndianapolis Colts

    Speaking of being 25% through the fourth book

    Karsa Orlong is a fucking beast. When I first started reading and didn't have any bearings I viewed him as pretty much an normal person but a badass warrior similar to Gruntle. However now I'm picturing him like a massive Orc or something. He can't catch a damn break though. He just got captured by Malazans after leaving Keeper's place with Torvald Nom. Seems like Torvald might have finally met his maker after having his throat cut but it didn't give us a definite death so I wouldn't be surprised to see him again.


    Edit: aaaaaaaaaaand there he is
     
    #44 The Blackfish, Jul 28, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2015
    RonBurgundy and lazy bum like this.
  45. The Blackfish

    The Blackfish The Fish in Black
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideIndianapolis Colts

    End of Part 1 of House of Chains (Through Chapter 4)

    I kept thinking Karsa Orlong was exactly like and possibly the Toblakai from Deadhouse Gates, but I was certain that Torvald Nom wasn't Leoman. Then low and behold Leoman shows up and names him Theloman Toblakai! Makes sense now.
     
    RonBurgundy and lazy bum like this.
  46. The Blackfish

    The Blackfish The Fish in Black
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideIndianapolis Colts

    Love that I'm getting more Cotillion in this book. I'm dying to know more about Dancer and Dassem Ultor, more so than Kellanved for some reason
     
    RonBurgundy likes this.
  47. lazy bum

    lazy bum active consumer
    Donor TMB OG

    I think he does a pretty good job of drip feeding those guys through the series. Enough to keep you engaged but not so much to ruin the mystery around them.

    I know the whole story and there are still parts of what they do that I'm still confused on.

    I'm on my reread of House of Chains, myself. Really enjoying this entire reread.
     
    RonBurgundy and The Blackfish like this.
  48. Neyland

    Neyland Well-Known Member

    First book is good. I am enjoying it.
     
    RonBurgundy and The Blackfish like this.
  49. Jax Teller

    Jax Teller Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Alabama Crimson TideAtlanta BravesTennessee Titans

    Just getting into the second book now. I wasn't a big fan the first few chapters (just seemed to jump around and confuse me a lot). But I'm really getting into it now.
     
    RonBurgundy likes this.
  50. The Blackfish

    The Blackfish The Fish in Black
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideIndianapolis Colts

    You'll get into it so quickly, it's an amazing book
     
    Jax Teller likes this.